Speaking of nontraditional femininities, this week’s virago is a leader who reversed all gender roles and ruled with an iron fist. Furra was the queen of the women and the enslaver of men. Queen Furra was the extreme leader of an ancient kingdom. She valued the lives of women over men so much that she took away men’s rights and to this day, when people pass her grave, the men beat the ground in anger while the women pour milk and sing her praises. Chatting with me is this week’s hero- the mighty Zenzele Cooper. *TRIGGER WARNING* This episode contains sounds of war. You may hear rapid gunfire, weeping, explosions, intense gore, general violence, screaming, babies crying, blood gushing, and/ or sirens.
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This podcast was created and hosted by ChelseaDee
This podcast was executive produced by ChelseaDee and Neruda Williams.
This episode features the vocal performances by ChelseaDee and Neruda Williams
Our theme song, “Crown On”, was created by Niambi Ra and Le’Asha
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Narrator 0:36
Come on Come on sit down quick Furra, Queen of the women, is about to start. She gathers us here share some tidbits of wisdom with us women. We love for her. But she's not everybody's favorite lady. Here in ancient sidama men beat the ground in anger when they pass her grave.
women folk, gather closely and listen well. You must understand. A woman must never, never submit completely to a man. absolute obedience to a man is never necessary. Women are not slaves of men, that is unnatural. Now, men as slaves of women, this, this is natural.
Furra was the first child of the first wife, a high position in ancient sidama present day Ethiopia, for a grew up and married a very big chief and army.
They had a very big baby, but both were murdered by scheming. Her family that way. That was a hard time, and it hardened her into a decisive leader. She took control of her husband's kingdom and fought in wars beside the man.
Men of sidama though the enemy is fierce, we are more fierce. Victory is ours brothers. Show them our STRENGTH. my fighters go fight.
Unknown Speaker 3:12
But Furra, there are too many of them. we're outnumbered.
Narrator 3:22
Scared? the men cannot fight. They are scared? And women are the weaker ones.Yes, the women. You coward. Go home. Tell your wife and daughter to meet me here. And dinner better be ready when we get back or you will suffer.
Queen furra gathered the women, train them, and strategize with them. And they successfully won that campaign. Thoroughly disgusted by the men, Furra took every chance to make them pay for their cowardice.
You idiot, limp nut. I am parched. Fetch me some water from my stream
Unknown Speaker 4:17
Furra, The boawlyou gave me? It has a hole at the bottom would never be able to collect the water.
Narrator 4:32
women, come look at this stupid worthless trash of a man. He can't even fetch water from a stream. Why do we keep them alive? All men? Yes, all men are utterly useless idiots.
Unknown Speaker 4:54
I am sorry. Please, please forgive me.
Narrator 5:00
do you know what i hate more than a man who speaks when he's not spoken to i hate short men and i really hate bald men oh yeah let's just get rid of them they will make our children ugly kill them get rid of the short ball beasts that burden our backs
Furra was committed to disenfranchising and terrorizing the men of her kingdom she took their rights relegated them to the home and enjoyed every opportunity to humiliate them the women killed all the bald and short men that day except for one a very clever old man who invented high heels and a wig to avoid being slaughtered. the old man managed to get away and became the secret leader of the men fuhrer hated the men and adored the women she wanted women to be leaders to no longer be enslaved and abused she was very very clear about her mission w
omen folk i am here to make you stronger and smarter why do you think they called me queen after women no longer should women be dominated no complete obedience to men never now here is some practical advice always cover your private parts ladies do not show it all giving away peeks at your delightful gifts for free or no make them work for it and always take care of your skin hair and nails beauty attracts power when at war do not campaign with men they are weak and they will cause you to be weak besides the fact that they are weak cowards they are also distractions hey stupid men go and build me a castle in the sky do it now!
little did she know the men were planning a revolt against
Unknown Speaker 7:34
the woman has gone mad she always tells us to do impossible things tonight she said we must build castles in the sky this is impossible she only wants to maleate she doesn't let men make any choices all we can do is cooking clean and my sewing skills are shameful. look at what i did to my socks! now this castle she will surely kill us all
Unknown Speaker 8:07
oh man man calm yourself you're not a coward see tells you you she is a silly woman to have gone power if she was a castle in the sky tell her to lay the first brick that would bring her down to earth
Narrator 8:29
dumb man bring me the biggest fastest animal for me to ride it will carry me to all the lands i rule goal now idiots
Unknown Speaker 8:42
stupid girl will give her the mess right of her life strapped her to a giraffe set the beast free and what it tells her to be
Narrator 8:57
the beast really did tear her apart her body was scattered throughout her kingdom cities were named after where her limbs landed and to this day they sing and to this day the men beat the ground with sticks when they passed her grave while the women pour milk and sing praises to their queen
brave people gals guys and everybody in between have you checked in with your heart today what's making you blue today welcome to another episode of vanguard of the broncos where we revisit the heroines of human history to learn from this hidden archive of treasures i'm your hostess with the most Chelsea D, I want to uplift that I'm on the ancestral lands of the necochea tank and a causton and piscataway peoples. I want to uplift the hands and lives that have loved and cultivated this earth for longer than us. And something a little wonky today after the week we've had here in the US, and I'm expecting a few grocery deliveries. So just so y'all know, that could be happening. This is a hopefully very interesting collection of nine heroic Tales from all over the ancient world featuring femme leaders. I am a creative who is addicted to diverse representation and storytelling, for the stories we tell most of the people we become. But my guests on this show are folks who are actively studying preserving and making history. These are the real heroes. And today's heroine is the one that only Zenzele Cooper! Hello, so good. Thank you for joining me.
Unknown Speaker 11:17
Yes, yes, revolutionary greetings.
Narrator 11:20
So happy to be with you. So let's do a quick check in Where are you? How are things where you are.
Unknown Speaker 11:28
I'm currently in my closet, in my bedroom, in Brooklyn, New York, aka my studio. Trying to find a quiet space in a house with a two and a half year old. I am doing good. today. I am 32 weeks and four days with child eagerly awaiting my second born and feeling really excited, feeling very blessed to be able to be creating and bringing some new life some new energy into this world that so desperately needs it. You know,
Narrator 12:12
I couldn't agree more, especially with you know what is transpiring here in the us right now. It's so important to be creating spaces for new life, creating spaces for human transformation. That's what I'm all about. So I'm glad. I'm glad to hear. So tell us a little bit about work with the Weeksville Heritage Center and your work as an artist How would you describe your your area of expertise? Hmm.
Unknown Speaker 12:45
It's like a big one. But uh
Unknown Speaker 12:49
um, so I first like to put myself in the space of being a Pan-Africanist, revolutionary political organizer. And that's kind of my my foundation. And then from there, all the cultural fields kind of bloom sprout grow from there. So I'm first a person who's got it by an organizing our folks to realize that we're all African people, no matter where we come from, no matter where we live on this earth, that we are children of Africa. And we have a responsibility to do what we can to help liberate Africa. So that's my first my first job. My first work is doing that spreading the gospel of Pan africanism, which is the total liberation and unification of Africa under scientific socialism. So that's my first bag. Then I'm an artist, you know, since I was a young girl I've been creating in imagining using my imagination to transform myself my surroundings. So I'm a theatre maker, an actor, a director, a producer, and then to pay the bills in my career, my profession. I am the Program Manager at Weeksville Heritage Center. Weeksville Heritage Center is a historic site in a cultural Museum, a cultural center here in Brooklyn, New York. And we've been charged by the ancestors to preserve three historic houses that historic hunter fly road houses, and to keep alive the memory of Weeksville which was a 19th century free black community.
Unknown Speaker 14:46
And one of my favorite places in Brooklyn. It's just like, nestled in, you can sometimes people are like I spent my whole life walking past this building and did not know was an oasis women. i'm so it's such a such a rich rich place thank you for joining us so let's dig in to this idea of ancient warrior queens first of all i used to think it was just a fantastical idea it was just something that you know when you look at greek you know ancient greek literature the amazons it's all framed like this is not real, fantastical this never really happened these people are real you know these are just a figment of our imagination and then to start to look at archaeologists and scientists and historians who have been researching and preserving these histories you start to learn that ancient warrior queens are real you know and they had a lot of contribution to the ancient world which i would think means they have a lot of contribution to today's society why warrior queens in your estimation
Unknown Speaker 15:59
um i've always been fascinated by worry queens and i think it has something to do with the duality of the concept right i think i've always been a person who has really challenged the stereotypes or the roles of a woman and i don't know if that's because my name means freedom but i've always been a person who never felt completely feminine right and i think it's something i struggle with until i got to college and started learning about gender and all of these things but i always felt like i had maybe more testosterone than most women and so feeling a little maybe like imbalanced but when i started to really like learn about this concept of warrior queens and thinking about just like the this this role of women not being just one way right like when you think of a queen you think you may think of you know feminine sitting on the throne and then you know it's very clean it's very graceful work you're not getting your hands too dirty and then when you think of warrior you think of like bloodshed and you know completely in your body physical warring just the complete opposite so when i started learning about warrior queens very young thinking about like queen and zynga as an example um i was just like wow like you can be a queen and have all the femininity and the grace and the the looks you know the crown the costume all the beautiful things we love about or i love about being a woman and femininity but then you also can carry a spear and have a weapon and be on the battlefield and fight and be aggressive so i just love the the warrior queen because it shows us as women that we can have this duality that we have this feminine side we have this masculine side and perhaps what we think is feminine may be masculine and it just kind of challenges these conceptions of femininity womanhood and i think it brings more balance i think to who we really are i think we were both you know i want to be glamorous and i can cut you if need be you know so and defend you know what i mean so i think it really just to me was like aha you know a queen a mother would be defending her her own her her children her family her community so i love it because it just challenges stereotypes i think that we have about what it means to the woman's rolled up the position of women
Narrator 19:03
this makes me think a lot about like something i find myself thinking about with these stories is like there is violence and there is war and there is aggression and there is this sometimes i feel torn i wonder am i going am i glorifying violence by retelling these tales of people who were engaged in this or am i just presenting other options and ways of being you know what what are your thoughts on depictions of violence or description of violence in relation to these conversations around gender particularly around femininity you know what do you see there's a place for conversation about war and violence as we talk about gender you know what are your thoughts on that
Unknown Speaker 19:49
yeah i think it's tough because we're in america and america is it's so steeped in it's so blood soaked right like America, his war is violence. It's built on genocide and slavery. And we're just so inundated with violence. So it's already imbalanced if you live in America, you know, and so I think, and then when you add in how black life is depicted, African life is depicted it, it's violent, you know, violence is always at the center, because that's really at the center of the American ideology. But I think a part of us reclaiming and telling our own stories, takes an active decolonization, like we have to go on a process of, of ideological transformation, right, we talked about our work and our businesses human transformation. Part of that is changing our psyche, our ideology, our consciousness. And so I think, a part of this balance that we're talking about of life, there's death, you know, I'm starting to teach my son like we do. We do our little African history lessons every day. And we learn about great heroes and heroines, and we start out with when they were born, and when they died. You know, my partner said to me, that they're like, oh, you're teaching them about death. And I've been reading him like these West African folktales. And they include death. And I'm like, Yeah, I think from very young, we need to understand that there's a balance to life, that everything that's born is going to die out, and that this isn't something that we need to be afraid of, or we need to hide our kids from. It's a part of life, if we're going to properly tell these stories of warrior queens, we have to include the violence, we have to include the death. For me, I don't, I don't think we're glorifying it. I think that we are just trying to show an accurate picture of the experience. So
Narrator 22:02
I want to know, but what do you what would you say, haunts your work? What is guiding your work? The central question,
Unknown Speaker 22:12
it's really about the African personality, and working to excavate and learn what that is. And bring that fourth, bring that back into the world because I think this idea of being African is a political choice, you know, to say, I'm an African in America, people often see that I'm in a negative way. But it's really a positive affirmation of our origin, and really where we come from and where things started. And I feel like in order for us to really recapture who we were to get to who we are now, right, it's always developing, I think you've got to start from your root. And if we're starting from slavery in America, or slavery in Jamaica, or some colonized experience, then we'll never really know the fullness like you're saying of who we were, what we did, how we related what we wore, how we spoke. So I think a part of being a pan Africanist is this quest to capture recapture what the African personality is. So we can put that on the world stage, because for many, many, many centuries, since the beginning of time, Africa, played a part in world history and really played a leadership role. And I think the world needs that now. They need us they need Africans, they they need the African personality, to come forward with all its fullness to show humanity, you know, we need a more balanced conception of everything of history of humanity of women. And I think African people have a major part to play because in African women in particular, because we're the most oppressed. So we know that once black women are liberated, that's going to free the whole world. And so I think central to me is really about setting forth putting forth what this African personality is in the way of values, what types of principles or morality do I want to put forth, what type of what types of descriptions, colors, movement, environments, the worlds we create. It's really about defining and showing what an African personality is, as opposed to Trying to be somebody else, but like really on a search to find like, Who am I really? And what is that unique quality about myself that I can offer to the world as opposed to being a bad imitation? You know, my dad would always say is like, that's the worst thing you can be is just like a bad imitation of somebody else, like, Who are you find out who you are. And that's really the gift to the world is like, stop trying to be like them and be like you. And if you don't know who you are, I think this is the work of, of the cultural work we do is really about excavating and like digging up, what was to see like, who we can be in like where we want to go.
Narrator 25:43
I mean, that's such a beautiful. Such a beautiful segue because I wanted to talk about the literal excavation of the site that became Weeksville. And that being a very community oriented process with john Maynard, who the that area has been renamed that street, right. It's been renamed in her honor, because of the work of community organizing the youth to excavate this history. I mean, can you talk a little bit about that process that and how the youth were central to that process of excavating history? And why.
Unknown Speaker 26:20
Yeah, so that's why I really love Weeksville. I mean, I love it for so many reasons. I mean, it's just really revolutionary. I mean, from its, from the time it started with James weeks, and these free black people purchasing land to have political freedom to create their own community, in the midst of slavery, I mean, it's just like, so bad ass. It's just so revolutionary. And then to think about how the, this the community was rediscovered in the 60s, another point of revolution in America, led by black people, once again, going and digging up this history, and so, and then the fact that it was community LED, right, it really just proves, I think a point that, that that at least in my work, the school of Pan africanism I come out of is one of you know, the masses, having the power that history is made by the people and it's made every day. It's not made by just one or two people. It's made by the collective, you know, and so this kind of mass conception is really revolutionary in this individualistic society that we live in. So to think that, like, the people, the community made this happen, it proves that the people make history and so in the fact that it was every day people, right, not the rich and famous, but like boys and girls, community members, unskilled people, really just putting their hands in the dirt, had a desire to know who they were to reclaim this history and was doing it wasn't waiting to get the degree to be to get the approval that like now I'm ready to be an archaeologist. They like look, we got to do this we need to dig in the ground. And we're going to do it and I think that's the spirit that's that revolutionary spirit that we need is that is like if you want it done go do it learn how to do it. And so I think with Project Weeksville you know it. You know, john came on later, you know, so Joan wasn't a part of that initial dig in that initial work. But um, I think what makes Jones so special is that she's the one who really took it on, and dedicated her life to making sure that it lived. So john became the first executive director of Weeksville. After this project, Weeksville work had begun of the, the digging the the archeological dig, the reclaiming of the artifacts, the curriculum being created, sort of this foundational work had been laid, then Joan came on, and then Joan, an artist herself, came and really started to spread this gospel like if you hear any stories about Joan, like, Joan is, is coming from that heritage of black women who make themselves like my father says a committee of one and they get it done. So Joan, like I hear stories about Joan being on the city bus, Joan would have the clapboards with the history of Weeksville, she was going to anybody and everybody and telling them about Weeksville public officials, to the people in the corner. You got to notice history. We got to save this land and dedicated her whole life to it and up until the time that's to transition. So, you know, Joan is coming from this hair with this heritage of heroines. And think in a warrior queens, like she was fighting on the cultural battlefield, to make sure this black history was told and that it would never be forgotten.
Narrator 30:17
I mean, it's just so it's so badass on so many levels. And it's such an inspiration to me today. Like, maybe this podcast is my way of like collecting little bits of inspiration.
Unknown Speaker 30:34
Because it's a part of, it's a part of the preservation work, this new medium of like podcasts, this is my first podcast. So exciting series.
Unknown Speaker 30:44
Yes, I love it, because it's, um, it's building on our oral history tradition as Africans, which is age old, and it's a way of preserving the stories and so it's going to live on beyond you. And so I think that's what's dope about it, too, is that it's a part of this preservation work. And, and having content, information knowledge for us to continue to learn about ourselves.
Unknown Speaker 31:14
I love this idea of mass conception, see Adrian Marie brown write about emergent strategy. And it's like, she's describing a very ancient process that we do, you know, because we want to be able to remember who we who we were literally remember put this put this body of work this body back together. So who is someone from history? a heroine from history? Who you'd like to spend time with for a day, if you could, if you could spend the day with with a with the heroine from history?
Unknown Speaker 31:49
Oh, my God. Okay, that come up just like immediately when you said that, I mean, I know there's so many, but it would definitely be Queen Nzinga. Okay, um, because that's taking us way back, I think maybe 16th century. So like, at least seeing like what Africa was then. And her really being on the battlefield. And having that experience, so I would love that. And then I also have to just say, Zora Neale Hurston is going to be her or Josephine Baker, who I so so love. So I don't know, it's like a tie between the three of them because of the different experiences like Josephine because of the glam more and just, you know, all that, that she had freedom, the freedom exactly that freedom. unadulterated, just free, you know, bare breasted dancing, just free and the glamour, I just love it. Um, and then also her political side, too, right. So I think that's, uh, you know, I love that about her. And then Zora Neale who was just like, she's just like, badass. She's just like, one of those sisters, you want to have, like, a stiff drink with smoke with, you know, and just talk, you know, she was getting dirty, you know, traveling around and these different communities and going into the bush,
Unknown Speaker 33:17
-a cultural preservationist at a time when people were like, who cares about who do who cares about exactly, there's about what these people in, you know, these "geechees" in the backwoods are doing. And she was like, This is precious. See, we asked, you know, and she was actually someone who really put archiving in my mind, I was exactly as artists, you know,
Unknown Speaker 33:39
and I just see us like, walking through the mud to get to this little community, or this house was want to share with us this meal, or, you know, so I really loved like the work she was doing. And her approach, which was, like you're saying is like, going into those places that people didn't think were valuable or worthy, and she saw them as these jewels. And she was just brave and badass, found the people to support her work, and was able once again, to be free to do what she needed to do for us over the preservation of our culture.
Narrator 34:16
This is so deeply a love a love thing. That's really beautiful. So it's kind of a wrap us out. Is there one thing that you want to want to say to the people is there like a warning or a question or something you you you want people to take with them as they go?
Unknown Speaker 34:38
Hmm.
Unknown Speaker 34:41
I would say I think it would have to be about women's liberation and black women's liberation specifically, and I can't remember the quote right off the top of my head, but Sekou turei who was who was one of my ideological fathers and the first person of Guinea a pan Africanist talked about, and who led the PDG, which was the mass party in Guinea to overthrow the French. It was this whole conception of this mass conception he was trying to bring to the people and really centering the people and empowering the people, that everything starts and begins with the people and their happiness in every aspect of society, every organ of society, every structure of society should be controlled by the people. And he has a quote, basically, like, you know, set free you know, the woman for the people set free the man for the people. And this idea that you know, we're wanting the same men and women, I think this is often something we always confuse is that like, we're one and I think, but but our but our position is different. And I'll say this, right? African women are the most oppressed people on this earth. And so when we free African women, we're going to free humanity. And so, if you're a human being on this earth, you want to help free African women. So if you are a black man, if you are a white man, if you are a white woman, if you somewhere in between, your freedom is linked to our freedom. So it's suggested that everybody get on board with free in the African women, so that their freedom can come
Unknown Speaker 36:36
and get on board.
Narrator 36:39
is where we're where I'm just gonna live from now. I want to thank you sincerely for generously agreeing to speak with me today. I feel like I've really gotten some archival footage of some some real brilliance to pass on to future generations, and whatever extraterrestrials pick these up on the radio waves or air waves, right, you know, wherever this goes. So thank you for contributing to human history.
Unknown Speaker 37:11
Thank you so much for inviting me and allowing me to share my experiences. I feel so honored to be considered as a heroine. And I wish you all the best as you move forward. In this podcast, I think what you're doing is so valuable. So important, and so dope. So forward to the warrior queens, forward, the Vanguard! Thank you. Thank you to everyone for listening to another episode of vanguard of the viragoes with ChelseaDee. This conversation and more resources will be on the audio podcast and website. This is a whole world y'all. So check us out. Subscribe the whole nine and always remember, we are all on the vanguard of a changing time, be the difference. lead with love.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai